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Topic: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

Is it possible to satify the lysine, methionine , myth-cyst, and tryptophan content in a formulated feed without adding synthetic amino acids?

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

yes but not all rations will work on that scenario.... lalo na kung limited ang list of ingredients used

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

irwinmelo wrote:

yes but not all rations will work on that scenario.... lalo na kung limited ang list of ingredients used

ok lang ba kung damihan natin ang fish meal (para makuha ang desired essential amino acid)? mga 5 to 10% sa ration? ok ba ang quality nang local fish meal (P19/kilo lang kasi)? yun kasi ang ginagamit ko. Ang peruvian ay parang nasa P60+/kl ata ngayon.

Di ko pa kasi kaya bumili nang per bag ng bawat amino acids, baka di ko maubos sa takdang expiry date. 2 bags of feeds lang kasi consumption ko everyday.

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

jadef wrote:
irwinmelo wrote:

yes but not all rations will work on that scenario.... lalo na kung limited ang list of ingredients used

ok lang ba kung damihan natin ang fish meal (para makuha ang desired essential amino acid)? mga 5 to 10% sa ration? ok ba ang quality nang local fish meal (P19/kilo lang kasi)? yun kasi ang ginagamit ko. Ang peruvian ay parang nasa P60+/kl ata ngayon.

Di ko pa kasi kaya bumili nang per bag ng bawat amino acids, baka di ko maubos sa takdang expiry date. 2 bags of feeds lang kasi consumption ko everyday.

kuyang san po kayo bumibili ng local na fishmeal??

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

sir jadef ... depende sa local fishmeal source mo.

it might be cheap pero baka naman puro buto lang yan at kaliskis.  or at worst may libreng salmonella or e. coli at mga histamines.

depende from what area ka... there are some farms and farmsupply that I can sell retail ng mga amino acids.

if you worry about amino acids.... you can also consider basemix option.

one of major mistakes of newbies (pardon the term) in feed formulation is that they always think that a cheap material is the best source of good nutrients.  i have yet see that.

the formulation is only as good as your actual rawmaterial on hand.  formulation can be right/correct sa papel... but sa actual hindi siya tama... kasi the rawmaterial used was not the same sa ginamit sa database ng formulation.

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

irwinmelo wrote:

sir jadef ... depende sa local fishmeal source mo.

it might be cheap pero baka naman puro buto lang yan at kaliskis.  or at worst may libreng salmonella or e. coli at mga histamines.

depende from what area ka... there are some farms and farmsupply that I can sell retail ng mga amino acids.

if you worry about amino acids.... you can also consider basemix option.

one of major mistakes of newbies (pardon the term) in feed formulation is that they always think that a cheap material is the best source of good nutrients.  i have yet see that.

the formulation is only as good as your actual rawmaterial on hand.  formulation can be right/correct sa papel... but sa actual hindi siya tama... kasi the rawmaterial used was not the same sa ginamit sa database ng formulation.

kuyang irwin, now that u have mentioned po basemix, ito po bay premix na produced by big feed companies like purina and b meg?? anopo example nito?? effective po ba cia based on your observation??

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

OT tayo sa tanong ni sir jadef... pero to put my opinion on your question - maraming makers ng basemix... even my company would cater this to our clients, if the client or the situation deems na yun ang most effective for them.

some big companies like b-meg and purina will have different options from basemix or even hog concentrates.

ang pagkakaiba ng basemix sa hog concentrates is the inclussion rates and composition, but in the end it is meant to provide the client a CONVENIENCE for the production of his feeds.

Eto ang brief description between a long-formulation, a hog concentrate and a basemix:

Sa isang typical long formulation ng isang ration (ex hog grower) ang ingredients niya would something like:

Yellow Corn
Soybean oil meal
Rice bran D1
Copra meal/cake
Animal protein (example Fishmeal)
Oil (example crude coconut oil)
limestone
mono dicalcium phosphate
amino acids (l-lysine, dl-methionine and l-threonine powder)
Vitamin Premix
Mineral Premix
Salt
Choline Chloride (usually yung 50%)


Sa isang ration naman using hog concentrate formulation naman it would look something like:

Yellow Corn
Oil (example crude coconut oil)
Hog concentrate


Sa isang ration naman using basemix it would look like something like:

Yellow Corn
Soybean oil meal
Rice bran D1
Copra meal/cake
Animal protein (example Fishmeal)
Oil (example crude coconut oil)
Basemix

Mas less ang flexibility ng mga hog concentrates .... so ang price ng feeds derived from this (assuming the same ang kanilang nutrient specifications) will often be the most expensive.

Next cheaper would be the one on basemix.  Minsan pagnagfluctuate ang rawmat prices, mas merun din flexibility ang nakabasemix (although not all the time).

Ang cheapest is the one on long formulation... pero it would be the most tedious to do and if you are not be strict, you might end up with a not good performance pa rin dahil sa quality issues of the rawmaterial used.

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

with regards to your question kung mas effective ba?

well it all depends on your capability:

1) if professional ka na sa pagmix ng feeds - meaning you know very well ang practices sa quality control, purchasing/sourcing the right material with the right quality and proper mixing procedures... then basemix is not really that worth sa iyo.  Pag ganito ang capability mo, you are best with the long-hand formulation.

2) if you are professional na sa pagmi-mix but you don't have time to attend to your feedmil hands-ons tapos wala kang highly trained tao.... then a hog concentrate or a basemix is also a better option for you.

3) if you are a professional na pero you don't have purchasing or sourcing efficiency, a basemix or hog concentrate is also a better option for you.

4) if you are beginner .... go for a hog concentrate

5) if you are better than a beginner... then a basemix is a better step to go for.

etc., etc.,

it really depends to what you plan to do or what you can do.

Merun akong client, very professional... pero ayaw na niya ng sakit ng ulo sa feedmixing operations niya (lalo na sa inventory ng micro ingredients).... so he always go for basemix.

Merun akong client, small lang a farm niya at hands on siya, pero dahil marami siyang connection sa rawmat source... mas prefered niya ang long-formulation.

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

salamat po kuyang irwin hehehe very delicate mga ganyan... hehehe as of the moment use ko po hog concentrates ... usually i mixed it with copra meal, D1, corn or corn grits saka pollard ... luckily for me meron naman available dito sa lugar namin... tanong uli kuyang, poydi po ba natin substitute sa copra meal ung sapal ng nyog?? ung pinagkunan ng coco milk kumbaga?? advisable po ba ito?? how do we icorporate po soybean meal dun sa feed mix, or baka naman meron na po ung hog concentrate naito ano?? salamat po in advance...

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

Thanks sir Irwin,
    yun nga napansin ko sa local fish meal na mura, taas moisture content hinid pero naman nabubulok, parang dinamihan ng asin, halos buong kaliskis ng isda ang makikita ko.

I opt for the long formulation madali naman kasi sa excel na. kaso lang dahil walang synthetic amino acid, It end up only satisfying the cp, me, cal, phos, and lysine..kulang ang methionine, myth-cyst, threonine, trytophan. Affscillin nalang dinadag ko kahit mahal. As far as the result to my layers, mas madami ang large ng mga eggs compared sa commercial feeds dahil sinadya ko na damihan ang yellow corn up to 55%. Guarantisado pa na fresh ang feeds ko.

eto lang ang ingredients ko;

yellow corn
rice bran d1,d2
fish meal
soybean meal
used cooking oil
lime
mono dicalcium phosphate
salt
(vitamins and minerals ay sa tubig inumin ko na hinahalom kasi di pa kaya bumili ng 1 bag na vit min premix)

Sir Irwin, ano po ang importnce ng additional choline chlorine sa ration?

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

@Frank Reed,

Probably lower ang protein ng sapal (dahil nasa gata yung protein), same lang sa crude fat, pero mas mataas siguro ang fiber niya.  as a filler or a by-product source, they should be about 90% comparable to copra (guestimate ko lang). 

At 5 to 10% inclussion rate, I think safe naman pang replace.


@jadef,

there is really nothing wrong with what you are doing... considering it is still performing better than a commercial feeds.  Afsilin is your vitamin and mineral source.  Since nasabi mo na obvious ang asin sa fishmeal mo, you can play around with your added salt.

If there is too much salt, magwe-wet dropping ang manok mo.  If it is too low, they will start to vent-pick (magtutukaan ng pwet).

Choline is also classified as a vitamin.  I think Afsilin have choline in it.

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

Sir Irwin, pwede po ba mkabili ng basemix nyo? pwede man cguro ipa LBC yan, 20 or 25 kls. Wla kasi akong alam nagbebenta dito sa amin.

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

irwinmelo wrote:

@Frank Reed,

Probably lower ang protein ng sapal (dahil nasa gata yung protein), same lang sa crude fat, pero mas mataas siguro ang fiber niya.  as a filler or a by-product source, they should be about 90% comparable to copra (guestimate ko lang). 

At 5 to 10% inclussion rate, I think safe naman pang replace.


@jadef,

there is really nothing wrong with what you are doing... considering it is still performing better than a commercial feeds.  Afsilin is your vitamin and mineral source.  Since nasabi mo na obvious ang asin sa fishmeal mo, you can play around with your added salt.

If there is too much salt, magwe-wet dropping ang manok mo.  If it is too low, they will start to vent-pick (magtutukaan ng pwet).

Choline is also classified as a vitamin.  I think Afsilin have choline in it.

ok po kuyang... ano po yung afsilin na iyan?? if we are mixing the long hand way, yan po ba gamit?? kahit wala na hog concentrates??

14 (edited by jadef Jun 10 2011 18:33:02)

Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

Frank Reed wrote:
irwinmelo wrote:

@Frank Reed,

Probably lower ang protein ng sapal (dahil nasa gata yung protein), same lang sa crude fat, pero mas mataas siguro ang fiber niya.  as a filler or a by-product source, they should be about 90% comparable to copra (guestimate ko lang). 

At 5 to 10% inclussion rate, I think safe naman pang replace.


@jadef,

there is really nothing wrong with what you are doing... considering it is still performing better than a commercial feeds.  Afsilin is your vitamin and mineral source.  Since nasabi mo na obvious ang asin sa fishmeal mo, you can play around with your added salt.

If there is too much salt, magwe-wet dropping ang manok mo.  If it is too low, they will start to vent-pick (magtutukaan ng pwet).

Choline is also classified as a vitamin.  I think Afsilin have choline in it.

ok po kuyang... ano po yung afsilin na iyan?? if we are mixing the long hand way, yan po ba gamit?? kahit wala na hog concentrates??


Affsicillin is a product from Novartis, a food supplement (Vitamin, minerals,  amino acid ,plus other growth promotants..) okay naman yung result pero sa presyo medyo mapamahal ang cost ng feeds mo. Nasa P1.50+ /kilo ang additional cost nito sa ffeds mo.

I just opted to mix feeds dahil sa bad experience ko sa dealer ng commercial feeds dito sa amin. Minsan expired na ang nakukuha kung stock. Nagiisa lang kasi sya na nagbebenta ng layer feeds at ako lang ang kumukuha ng layer feeds nya.
Kaya one time nasira ang production ng layers ko.

Buti nalang di ko pa nakalimutan ang lection namin sa feeds ang feeding from my animal science class  smile

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

jadef saan po ang location mo?  how many layers do you have?

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

jadef wrote:
Frank Reed wrote:
irwinmelo wrote:

@Frank Reed,

Probably lower ang protein ng sapal (dahil nasa gata yung protein), same lang sa crude fat, pero mas mataas siguro ang fiber niya.  as a filler or a by-product source, they should be about 90% comparable to copra (guestimate ko lang). 

At 5 to 10% inclussion rate, I think safe naman pang replace.


@jadef,

there is really nothing wrong with what you are doing... considering it is still performing better than a commercial feeds.  Afsilin is your vitamin and mineral source.  Since nasabi mo na obvious ang asin sa fishmeal mo, you can play around with your added salt.

If there is too much salt, magwe-wet dropping ang manok mo.  If it is too low, they will start to vent-pick (magtutukaan ng pwet).

Choline is also classified as a vitamin.  I think Afsilin have choline in it.

ok po kuyang... ano po yung afsilin na iyan?? if we are mixing the long hand way, yan po ba gamit?? kahit wala na hog concentrates??


Affsicillin is a product from Novartis, a food supplement (Vitamin, minerals,  amino acid ,plus other growth promotants..) okay naman yung result pero sa presyo medyo mapamahal ang cost ng feeds mo. Nasa P1.50+ /kilo ang additional cost nito sa ffeds mo.

I just opted to mix feeds dahil sa bad experience ko sa dealer ng commercial feeds dito sa amin. Minsan expired na ang nakukuha kung stock. Nagiisa lang kasi sya na nagbebenta ng layer feeds at ako lang ang kumukuha ng layer feeds nya.
Kaya one time nasira ang production ng layers ko.

Buti nalang di ko pa nakalimutan ang lection namin sa feeds ang feeding from my animal science class  smile

kuyang jadef, poydi din po ba sa hogs ang afcilin?? san po ito nabibili kung ska sakali...

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

yes, afsilin should also work with swine.  a long time ago afsilin is normally available sa mga agrivet stores (yung mga nagbebenta ng gamot for poultry and pigs) like PACIFICA AGRIVET.

Univet (now known as UNAHCO) use to have a counter part ng afsilin called UNIVITE. I just not sure kung available pa yun sa market

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

irwinmelo wrote:

yes, afsilin should also work with swine.  a long time ago afsilin is normally available sa mga agrivet stores (yung mga nagbebenta ng gamot for poultry and pigs) like PACIFICA AGRIVET.

Univet (now known as UNAHCO) use to have a counter part ng afsilin called UNIVITE. I just not sure kung available pa yun sa market

salamat po kuyang...very informative po ... will just read the label na lang po pano incorporate sa feedmix...a million thanks kuyang irwin...

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

Sir Irwin, safe po ba gamitin ang copra meal na walang kasamang toxin binder? sa nakita ko sa unprocessed copras bodega eh inaamag na kasi, o baka wla na ang amag pag na piga ang ang oil nito in the processing plant?

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

copra... is sometimes safe and sometimes not safe... as you have seen merun amag... as such merun risk for toxins being produced by the amag.

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

I have read in the internet that Mega Sardines is selling fish meal 53% (head and tail) and 63% (whole fish). Okay ba ang quality nito?

I plan to try Vitafac as a replacement to Affsillin because it is cheaper. Okay ba ang Vitafac by Tryco?

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

Novartis - Multinational company who have been in the business longer than Tryco (naiba lang name nila... but afsilin was originally made by ER Squibb which eventually was bought by Novartis)

Tryco - is a local company... have been around since 1970's.  They are not famous in the animal nutrition biz but they have been around and is still existing.

In my opinion... it will depend on the specs of the two product (check the label).  And compare them to one another.

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

kuyang irwin, tanong ko lang po.... abundant po kasi sa amin lugar ung fish rejects, entrails and etc. being a coastal city and all. ano po ang pwede nating gawin sa mga ito... dati rati when i was still a kid, i use to observe my uncle boiling fish then adding salt ... after po nito halo na sa local feeds mix with D1 and pollard... is there some other way to process and make use of this supply of fish?? pwede po ba haluan natin ng suka yung fish to eliminate decay tapos mix in D1?? please advise po...

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

Frank Reed wrote:

kuyang irwin, tanong ko lang po.... abundant po kasi sa amin lugar ung fish rejects, entrails and etc. being a coastal city and all. ano po ang pwede nating gawin sa mga ito... dati rati when i was still a kid, i use to observe my uncle boiling fish then adding salt ... after po nito halo na sa local feeds mix with D1 and pollard... is there some other way to process and make use of this supply of fish?? pwede po ba haluan natin ng suka yung fish to eliminate decay tapos mix in D1?? please advise po...

idea ko lang ha,kung abundant talaga ang supply at matagal maubus, better cooked it with water and then pagkaluto pigain para mahiwalay ang sabaw at ibilad at lagayan konting asin sa isda (pwede cguro gilingin mo muna sa meat grinder, hindi ko pa kasi nasubkan to). ang sabaw ay nagtataglay ng protina and fats ay pwede mo ihalo sa pagkain ng mga alaga mo.

Kung malinis pagkagawa eh di meron ka nang salmonella and e.coli free na fish meal.

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

jadef wrote:
Frank Reed wrote:

kuyang irwin, tanong ko lang po.... abundant po kasi sa amin lugar ung fish rejects, entrails and etc. being a coastal city and all. ano po ang pwede nating gawin sa mga ito... dati rati when i was still a kid, i use to observe my uncle boiling fish then adding salt ... after po nito halo na sa local feeds mix with D1 and pollard... is there some other way to process and make use of this supply of fish?? pwede po ba haluan natin ng suka yung fish to eliminate decay tapos mix in D1?? please advise po...

idea ko lang ha,kung abundant talaga ang supply at matagal maubus, better cooked it with water and then pagkaluto pigain para mahiwalay ang sabaw at ibilad at lagayan konting asin sa isda (pwede cguro gilingin mo muna sa meat grinder, hindi ko pa kasi nasubkan to). ang sabaw ay nagtataglay ng protina and fats ay pwede mo ihalo sa pagkain ng mga alaga mo.

Kung malinis pagkagawa eh di meron ka nang salmonella and e.coli free na fish meal.

yun din nasa isip ko hehehe.. neways we are still awaiting the comments of our much more experienced kababoy... hehehe salamat po...

26 (edited by irwinmelo Jun 15 2011 00:09:34)

Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

two possible options (I think) will work well:

1) first option - yung pinag-isipan na ninyo above... pero my version is to feed it as a slurry of cooked fish entrails. No need to dry it up.  However, try to get as fresh as possible.  Older animals will benefit here more than younger animals.

if you want to save on "cooking" cost, you might want to invest on a pressure cooker.  Probably you will need only about 20 to 40mins (or even less) of cooking under pressure and you can also have soft bones (madali madurog ang mga tinik at scales) just like sardines.

hypothetically, their diet will need only about 3 to 5% of this material. 

2) if you want to use it just like commericial feed raw material - you will need to steam cook it instead of wet cooking it.  Acetic acid (suka) is also good as anti-salmonella / e. coli, unfortunately walang rule of thumb sa use nito.  if you do use this, you will be like doing paksiw... hehehe.  Another good thing is that it will also denature the amines (hopefully even the histamines) thus making it (theoretically) safer for the animals.

sa steam cooking, you don't add water in the material but you have steam cook it... this will need a more elaborate equipment... which is really not that practical.

bottomline:

1) cooking is the right way to go
2) adding acid before cooking will probably have good benefit in controlling bacteria and histamines
3) work with equipment that you have or cheap enough to acquire
4) get the most fresh material that you can use... huwag mong pilitin gamitin ang mga nabubulok na materials.
5) you don't really need to have dried product (unless you have problem with storage)

with regards sa ricebran mix with the home-made fishmeal... it is the right combo.

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

irwinmelo wrote:

two possible options (I think) will work well:

1) first option - yung pinag-isipan na ninyo above... pero my version is to feed it as a slurry of cooked fish entrails. No need to dry it up.  However, try to get as fresh as possible.  Older animals will benefit here more than younger animals.

if you want to save on "cooking" cost, you might want to invest on a pressure cooker.  Probably you will need only about 20 to 40mins (or even less) of cooking under pressure and you can also have soft bones (madali madurog ang mga tinik at scales) just like sardines.

hypothetically, their diet will need only about 3 to 5% of this material. 

2) if you want to use it just like commericial feed raw material - you will need to steam cook it instead of wet cooking it.  Acetic acid (suka) is also good as anti-salmonella / e. coli, unfortunately walang rule of thumb sa use nito.  if you do use this, you will be like doing paksiw... hehehe.  Another good thing is that it will also denature the amines (hopefully even the histamines) thus making it (theoretically) safer for the animals.

sa steam cooking, you don't add water in the material but you have steam cook it... this will need a more elaborate equipment... which is really not that practical.

bottomline:

1) cooking is the right way to go
2) adding acid before cooking will probably have good benefit in controlling bacteria and histamines
3) work with equipment that you have or cheap enough to acquire
4) get the most fresh material that you can use... huwag mong pilitin gamitin ang mga nabubulok na materials.
5) you don't really need to have dried product (unless you have problem with storage)

with regards sa ricebran mix with the home-made fishmeal... it is the right combo.

salamat po kuyang irwin sa detalyadong advise ninyo po....really appreciate it...

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

like it...

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

Mga expert good day po! Nag sisimula lang po ako sa piggery business but medjo mahal po yung commercial feeds, i am planning po to mix my own feeds. ano poba dapat kung gawin? kase nalilito po ako sa mga Ingredients napakadami and how to compute the rations/formulation sa feedmix? i only have 10 sows and more or less 100 heads of my fattener. my location is in Cagayan de Oro po.

Any suggestions po mga expert kung ano first ko gawin? salamat po ang godbless!

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

GoatRaiser wrote:

Mga expert good day po! Nag sisimula lang po ako sa piggery business but medjo mahal po yung commercial feeds, i am planning po to mix my own feeds. ano poba dapat kung gawin? kase nalilito po ako sa mga Ingredients napakadami and how to compute the rations/formulation sa feedmix? i only have 10 sows and more or less 100 heads of my fattener. my location is in Cagayan de Oro po.

Any suggestions po mga expert kung ano first ko gawin? salamat po ang godbless!

I have a very crude and simple Excel sheet that will help you formulate rations. If you want it i could send it to you via e-mail, just leave your e-mail and i will send it asap..

Kung talagang balak mo mag mix, unang una, research research research! read all about swine nutrition and others. then start looking for feed ingredient suppliers, and get researching kung anong nutritional values ang gusto mong sundan.. Try reading the KSU swine guide, mukhang maganda nmn ang specs na bigay nila.. Once naka formulate ka ng ration mo, check mo kung feasible ang presyo, most likely oo ang sagot jan.. or the technical specs ng PIC, you can readily find it on the internet..

and once you have formulations in mind hanap ka na ng equipment for mixing, hammer mills and mixers ang kailangan mo jan.. there are some here who sell feed mill equipment, just look around nalang. Goodluck!

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

so pwede ako maka mix ng starter,grower feeds? o talaga ba dapat mag hire ako ng Nutritionist? abundant kase mga raw materrials dito samin lugar. anyway, here is my email add. ramosmarkjovanni@yahoo.com.

sir, ok poba yung computer-based feed formulation software? yung Brill kase napaka mahal, my question is ok poba yung ibang gumawa ng software? thanks godbless!

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

GoatRaiser wrote:

so pwede ako maka mix ng starter,grower feeds? o talaga ba dapat mag hire ako ng Nutritionist? abundant kase mga raw materrials dito samin lugar. anyway, here is my email add. ramosmarkjovanni@yahoo.com.

sir, ok poba yung computer-based feed formulation software? yung Brill kase napaka mahal, my question is ok poba yung ibang gumawa ng software? thanks godbless!

I wouldn't know about those programs, never tried using any.. Kung bumili ka man ng program you still have a lot of other issues to tackle.. Example, magkatugma ba yung nutritional profile ng mga local ingredients mo sa data nung program.. Mas maganda pa siguro get a nutritionist to help you..

Marami naman ng nag successful self mixing dito sa forums, but don't expect it to go right in one shot.. Kung gusto mo maka tipid, there are companies that supply basemixes, premixes, and others.. Yung iba hahaluan mo nlng ng D1 and corn.. Maybe you can start there..

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

You can start with pig concentrate (maganda ang bmeg pig con, ask a formulation from their technician). Makakatipid ka rin dyan kung meron ka cheap source of corn and rice bran D1. Invest on hammermill ang mixer or pala2x muna.

But if your feed consumption  is around 2 bags per day, investing on premixes,equipment, raw mats and nutritionist is not a bad idea. If you mix your own feeds, 2 bags per day would mean a savings of around 12k per month.

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

@Utakpulvoron - Salamat sa Excel doc. receive ko na through email. Sir, yung Philippine Society of Animal Nutritionists book pareho2x lang ba yung Laman compare sa KSU Swine Nutrition Guide? And any suggestions po kung anong Company/Brands the Best quality na nag su-supply ng basemixes, premixes etc...


@jadef - Sir im trying to contact the Cargill yung Purina feeds may hog concentrate daw sila. Sir may idea ka kung how much average price per kilo kapag na mix na yung concentrate?

Salamat sa mga advices ninyo i really appreciate it talaga... very well said. thank you! sana mag succesful ako dito sa ownmixing ko since hindi kopa siguro kaya yung professional fee sa mga nutritionist i think ang mahal.

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

@GoatRaiser: here is a topic on Purina's Concentrates

http://mboard.pcarrd.dost.gov.ph/forum/ … p?id=11054

but do note that topic was started way back in 2010.. malamang tumaas na presyo nila.. Ill just post what you probably want to know, but try to read the link i posted nadin..

STARTER
130 kilos Starter Concentrate (Php2085/50kg bag)
190 kilos D1
180 kilos Corn
1.25kilos Atovi

GROWER
150 kilos Grower Concentrate (Php1685/50kg bag)
195 kilos D1
155 kilos Corn
1.25kilos Atovi

Finisher
125 kilos Grower Concentrate (Php1685/50kg bag)
225 kilos D1
150 kilos Corn
1.25kilos Atovi

Yung Atovi i dont think its necessary, dinagdag lng ni sir platinum.. So just do the math and you can get an idea of how much it will cost per kilo..

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

I see.. thanks alot sir sa mga advices. Contact ko yung sales agent dito samin sa purina. anyway, Sir nabasa ko yung sa KSU na mga swine diet, ok pod ba sundin ko yun? pero parang mahal yung mga ing. nila. smile yun poba sa Philsan book sir may mga recommendation poba sila na mga feed formulation,ing. etc.?

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

GoatRaiser wrote:

I see.. thanks alot sir sa mga advices. Contact ko yung sales agent dito samin sa purina. anyway, Sir nabasa ko yung sa KSU na mga swine diet, ok pod ba sundin ko yun? pero parang mahal yung mga ing. nila. smile yun poba sa Philsan book sir may mga recommendation poba sila na mga feed formulation,ing. etc.?

From the philsan book i have, 2003 edition ata, i didnt see any sample mixes.. The things you probably want to know that the philsan has, are suggested nutritional specs, maximum usage of a certain ingredient for a ration, and the nutritional values of different ingredients..

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

i see... ok din pala yung Philsan book as a guide and reference sa mga standards. i think meron daw sila bagong edition and i hope meron mga sample mixes.

anyway, Sir ano poba mga the best na Brands sa Vitamin, trace mineral premix? and any other premix ingredient para ehalo sa feeds? kase pumunta ako sa agri supply daming mga Brands and i don't know which is the best.

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

GoatRaiser wrote:

i see... ok din pala yung Philsan book as a guide and reference sa mga standards. i think meron daw sila bagong edition and i hope meron mga sample mixes.

anyway, Sir ano poba mga the best na Brands sa Vitamin, trace mineral premix? and any other premix ingredient para ehalo sa feeds? kase pumunta ako sa agri supply daming mga Brands and i don't know which is the best.

Mahirap kasi magsalita for the other brands, but kung gusto mo maka sigurado go for the tried and tested by our other forum members.. i have no experience from those eh, i make my own feeds kasi.. and ive been at it for a year now, satisfactory results but not spectacular..

For vitamins and mineral premix naman, the best you can do is take down the guaranteed analysis of the premix, and compare it to the values you wish to follow.. or kung malaking volume bibilhin mong vitamins and mineral premix, there are companies that mix to your specifications..

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Re: BALANCING AMINO ACID INQUERY

GoatRaiser wrote:

@Utakpulvoron - Salamat sa Excel doc. receive ko na through email. Sir, yung Philippine Society of Animal Nutritionists book pareho2x lang ba yung Laman compare sa KSU Swine Nutrition Guide? And any suggestions po kung anong Company/Brands the Best quality na nag su-supply ng basemixes, premixes etc...


@jadef - Sir im trying to contact the Cargill yung Purina feeds may hog concentrate daw sila. Sir may idea ka kung how much average price per kilo kapag na mix na yung concentrate?

Salamat sa mga advices ninyo i really appreciate it talaga... very well said. thank you! sana mag succesful ako dito sa ownmixing ko since hindi kopa siguro kaya yung professional fee sa mga nutritionist i think ang mahal.

Mahina ang hog con sa cargill, mababa ang CP, mas mahal ang costing mo pag cargill gamit mo.

If you are looking for premixes...try Simon Enterprises